dasein42


Dasein Male Submissive, 49, London	DaseinMasoch Male Submissive, 45, Athens	daseiner Male Submissive, 25

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	About dasein42 I am currently in a poly household of two couples, both women are submissives and collared to me, while the other male is a top and occasionally scenes with us. I have a longstanding interest in philosophy especially concerned with relationships, from early dialectic to the lord/bondsman discussion in Hegel, to the ideas of a shared world and mitdasein in Heidegger. It always amazes me how a certain percentage of tops/doms/switches can't seem to relate to owned slaves, but suffice it to say that my two don't especially like crude advances, any more than a vanilla woman would.

Re: Outgrowing BDSM ? ? ? - ?? The clearest thing in western philosophy that has been said on this subject is the Lord/Bondsman dialectic in Hegel, part of the Phenomenology of Spirit. In this dialectic the master / slave opposition eventually has to be sublated into a relationship of mutual cooperation, because recognition by a slave is eventually unsatisfying to the master, and doesn't confirm his self-consciousness. The slave, on the other hand, has already progressed into a self-recognising subject through his manipulation of nature in working an object, i.e. labour.

So what does this say for people in a D/s lifestyle? The dynamic and the possible resolution are interesting but the resolution Hegel comes up with is , for me, unsatisfying. As a political and economic resolution it has proven ephemeral, slaves progressed to wage slaves and the master to the pseudo mastery of the bourgeois, leaving neither in a position to even satisfy the immediate need for recognition that creates the master/slave dialectic to begin with.

In a personal relationship, then, my current thinking is that the current economic and political lack of either true mastery or true submission leads to a craving for these things, according to one's tendencies as a dominant, submissive, or switch. Open acknowledgement of what is unsaid in many if not most personal relationships opens up the possibility of a first dialogue between the master and slave, of the first, and ultimately most satisfying available, mutual recognition as the same and as other.

Hegel's "optimism", which is fundamental to a thinker that sees man as intrinsically infinite Spirit, leads him to believe in a historical, economic, political and ulimately permanent answer to the dialectic. But if we remain what we only know ourselves to be, that is finite, limited and mortal, getting to, going through, and getting "beyond" the Master / slave situation is a matter for repetition. Immediately as we move beyond it we fall back to the immediacy of sense-certainty, the deception of perception, the ignorance of consciousness, and the burgeoning development of self-consciousness that gives rise to this situation, and this dialectic in the first place. Non masters, non slaves are not "free" except in the same way that Masters and slaves are free, that they can choose to continue or not. Vanilla folk just "think" they are free, when in truth they haven't yet developed to the point where slavery or Mastery begins.
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Re: Poly-Fidelity????? -????? Outside of D/s, polyamory developed the idea of poly-fidelity, and I think this is what everyone mentioned in the thread so far is feeling. There has often been an assumption that a poly situation is naturally more fickle and less "forever" than a traditional marriage, but since that a poly situation, whether a V, W, triad, quad, or some other arrangement, gives its members the availability of more dynamics to satisfy their needs, and more opportunities to satisfy others', it's possible IMO for a well formed poly group to be stronger and less perdurable than the traditional one on one relationship.

More specifically, mitda and emelina are very different as people and as slaves, and satisfy different needs of mine without my having to force those behaviours on one of them. My relationship with E. is one of equals and satisfies other aspects of my interpersonal life. And conversely I give different things to the different members of our quad, and exercise different aspects of myself and different abilities in relating with them. All this is uniquely satisfying to me.

While I felt tremendous responsibility when the relationship consisted of only myself and mitda, that commitment to the relationship itself has increased exponentially now that I have responsibilities to three people rather than just one, and that those responsibilities include ensuring that the other three can meet their responsibilities to each other.

In the discussion between "roles" and "traits" we have a chronological vs ontological a priori to consider. While "traits" are developed, and always developing, often through the acceptance of given roles, in a definite situation I will choose a role based on the a priori traits that have been developed.

In all this, though, the most constant thing for me, and a priori to both, is the way that things appear to me in the space that I create for them to appear. As a "dominant", then, things appear in a mode that they can be controlled rather than be controlling, and it has been a consistent facet of my "self" as far back as I remember that they appear this way. It seems, then, that I consistently chose dominating roles and developed dominating character traits based on the way the world appeared to me.

By contrast, a submissive such as my mitda (I refer to her by a diminutive in the relationship term I understand) consistently has the world appear to her as controlling, and forceful. She took on roles that supported that appearance and developed submissive character traits, which consistently enforce that choice of roles. The world's appearance would then be the actual a priori of both roles and "character" or "personality" traits, and both roles and traits are more or less inconstant and perdurable compared with this originary appearance.

This has been a long day at work, fortunately interrupted at noon by a visit from my girls.? I think I will take advantage of the 13.5 hrs I put in monday to make today a short day, get some rest at home and be ready for some good playtime later tonight.

Today is the last day of a long work week.? I'm looking forward to a bit of pampering when I arrive home.? Along with my regular work today I put together a cleaning schedule (important in a 4 adult poly household) and a weekly schedule for when mitda returns to her writing, something she's currently taking a break from, having just completed the first draft of her current work.

Today I am late for work due to a highway closure.? My 2nd slave is also stuck and unable to get to work.? My primary doesn't work so she is enjoying the extra company.

It's an interesting dynamic in a poly quad where there is one dominant male, two submissive females, and another male not actively involved in D/s.? I will post more about it in the future.

Das

DaSade Dominant Couple, 45, New Britain, Connecticut	dasha Female Submissive, 18, Sydney	dasani Female Submissive, 38, Ontario	dasMaster Male Dominant, 51, Berwyn, Pennsylvania
dasboi Male Dominant, 37, CLINTON TWP, Michigan	dastarlydaisy Male Submissive, 38, Leeds	DasHunter Male Dominant, 27, New York	dashiell Male Switch, 50, bellevue, Washington
dasher Male Dominant, 38, Barcelona	dasnasty Male Switch, 29, bc	DasUbermensch Male Dominant, 23, Ontario	DasKreestof Male Dominant, 40, Westchester, New York

dasein42

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