SupremacyManor

Oh, and in case anyone forgets...Gabrielle29 is a liar and a cheat as a sub...stay away from him.

So funny to have a sub talk to me...well, let me rephrase that...interrupt Me from what I am doing online to ask if I can 'use me please mistress' for about 10 mins until they realize I just had a death in the family and have no intentions of using anyone today...gotta love the assholes that don't even ask a woman how she's doing before asking her to play...

We are currently seeking again! If you are interested, please check out Our profile.

Wow, I guess they really can just delete your profile on here without telling you. Goodbye all who knew femdominakay I guess.

~Mistress Kay

Sir and I again a fellow Domme/sub couple over last weekend, here is the recount, written by Sir. Enjoy!

On Wednesday Mistress Kay told me that Miss A was going to return to our house for a double dome session. Mistress Kay also told me that Miss A requested some time my backside to release her anger on from her frustrating week. The thought of Miss A requesting me for a spanking session made my mind swirl. The fact that Mistress Kay thought I was ready to be at Miss A’s hand and Miss A thought I was good enough to request for a spanking session flattered me so. Mistress Kay has always wanted to do double Domme sessions, but Mistress has also desired to see another Domme session with me as she watches. I know these two things really make Mistress excited, and I was dying to give this to her at any cost to make her happy.

As the time passed and I thought about what was going to happen on Saturday my excitement grew. I thought back to the first meeting with Miss A, and how great it was to meet a beautiful dominant Woman as herself. I thought about the last spanking I had taken from Mistress and Miss A. I thought about how intense it was when both beautiful strong women were spanking me at the same time. I also thought about how excited Miss A got using Mistress Kay’s Flogger, Slapper, hairbrush, and her hand on my backside. The thought of all this made my head spin at times I would be so overwhelmed, and nervous.

On Saturday morning Mistress Kay awakened me and she was in a great mood. Mistress Kay and I went shopping that day and she let me spoil her more with some fun make-up she had wanted. Then we went to a late lunch and did a small photo shoot with her new camera afterwards—it’s so wonderful to see her shooting with a camera again.

  After the photo shoot Mistress, and I returned home. I finished cleaning the house as we both waited for Miss A and her submissive to arrive. Mistress Kay told me she was going to push me very hard to night, and that I’d better be on my best behavior. I could tell Mistress was very proud of me for the way I have served her and accepted her power over me. I live to serve Mistress Kay, and I’m so proud to be her property.  Mistress told me I could ask one question about the evening. Mistress hasn’t talked much about the session with Miss A that was about to happen.  When Mistress informed I could ask a question, my mind went blank.  I couldn’t come up with any question at all because I simply had no worries at this point, I trusted Mistress Kay more than ever.  Mistress knows what’s best for all her slaves and submissives. Teasing me throughout the day, I tried to prepare mentally for anything Mistress would try to through my way, but Mistress never reveals much.

Finally the time had arrived and I heard a knock on the door.

I heard the knock on the door Mistress looks at me with a big beautiful smile and tons of excitement. Mistress instructs me to answer the door.  As I open it, I see Miss A, she looked stunning. Inviting them in, Miss A told me how nice it was to see me and everyone exchanged welcomes. I took Miss A's and her submissive coat and put them into the closet and then went back to help Miss Ali and her submissive settle in and get comfortable. I went to fetch a drink for both our guests and as I returned, I could see how excited Mistress and Miss Ali were to see each other again. I was excited to meet Miss A's submissive too and found him to be quite interesting and pleasant.

As we finished our drinks, Miss A instructed her submissive to take his clothes off. Mistress instructed me to my panties soon after. I made sure to do this as fast as I could and returned to my knees. As I was on my knees in front of these two beautiful women, I could only think about pleasing them both as much as possible. Mistress ordered me close to her on my knees while Mistress showed Miss A her new gear that she was gifted by her other submissive Gabrielle earlier this week. Mistress seemed to be ready to begin and asked me to move the coffee table out of the way. Excitedly I began to drag them away, but I made a silly mistake. I didn’t move Miss A's or her submissive’s drink as I went to move the table. Mistress stopped me immediately as she watched in horror as the wine teetered and tottered on the table. I could tell I had let Mistress down as she told me how stupid of me it was to move the table without first clearing it of beverages. Mistress was right--I should have moved the drinks before moving the table because they could have been spilled all over Miss A’s gear and it would have been a disaster. I felt so low and sorry for letting Mistress down so soon in the evening. Mistress smacked me across my face very hard and corrected my bad behavior. I could tell from the impact from Mistress Kay’s slaps across my face that she wasn’t playing games with me at all. Seeing her so powerful overwhelmed Miss A’s submissive, never having been around a Dominant quite like Mistress Kay—a feeling many get around Her.  Mistress Kay went over to him and comforted him, reassuring him that his presence with us was wanted and that fear would not be acceptable and proceeded to bind him with Miss A. After they were finished, Mistress Kay ordered me to her. As I kneeled in front of Mistress Kay she told me she was going to warm my backside up for Miss A’s spanking. Mistress began spanking me lightly at first just to get the blood to raise some. When Mistress was finished with warming me up, she ordered me to my hands and knees. Mistress Kay then asked Miss A if she was ready to spank me. Miss A was very eager and excited to spank me and her excitement made her glow.

Miss A started off with the flogger. I could feel the flogger being rubbed on my backside teasing me. I could feel Mistress Kay’s eyes on me watching her slave took his first spanking form another Domme. Then Miss A started flogging me light, but not for very long. Suddenly, Miss A flogged me hard wrapping the flogger around my side stinging my side with pain. She began flogging me harder and harder and the intensity that Miss A showed made my heart skip a beat. I loved feeling the beautiful strong woman take all her frustrations out on me. As she slapped me with the flogger, it landed many times in my testicles.  I knew then that this was going to be a serious spanking. The pain I felt was like no other pain I have felt before but I felt myself just slip into a deep sub-space. Miss A grunted and squealed and her reactions only made me want more from her.  Miss A switched to the leather slapper and as she began slapping me with the slapper hard my backside was very hot and stung terribly. I don’t think I have heard Mistress Kay so excited in a long time and it excited was having such a great time. After Miss A was finished with the slapper. She moved to over the knee spanking. She positioned me so that her submissive would be able to watch as his gorgeous Mistress spank my backside over her knee. I enjoyed being over Miss A’s knees; I really appreciated the opportunity to be so close to her, it was a real honor. After Miss A finished her spanking, she requested Mistress Kay back over. As Mistress Kay walked over I wanted her to push me more than ever. At this moment I would do anything for Mistress, and I do mean anything for her. I love every chance I get Mistress’ attention. Mistress is the one I need, want, and desire more than anyone--she owns my body, heart and soul completely. Mistress positioned me over her knee admiring the marks already made from Miss A up-close. Then Mistress began spanking me very hard and intense with her hand. I was having an out of the body experience due to the intensity of Mistress Kay’s slaps on my backside. I was introduced deeper into my sub-space than I ever have experienced by Mistress’s hand. Mistress Kay then switched to the slapper, and kept the same intensity up not letting up on my backside till she was satisfied.

Mistress smiled and ordered me to do pushups for her and Miss A. I’m really good at pushups being in the army for so long and Mistress made me do all of the  different kinds, showing Miss A my skills in physical fitness. Mistress loves showing me off and I am so grateful she admires my skills and body so. I accidently made the Mistake to call Miss A  ‘Mistress A. Mistress stopped what she was doing and punished me with a few hard slaps to the face. I felt so terrible with remorse, I never have been so sorry in my life to disrespect Mistress by calling Miss A Mistress even if it was a mix up with my words. I know it is important to Mistress for me to act properly at all times. She has a lot of pride, and has spent so much time training me to her expectations; I failed her and felt terrible. Mistress ordered me to the floor on my back as she sat on my face with her panties on smothering me. At first Mistress was letting me breath whenever I would tap to let her know I gave up like she has trained me to do. But, as this went on, Mistress would go longer and longer after I would tap out. Over and over Mistress would take my last breath making me go longer and longer, forcing me to hold my breath. After a few rounds of this I was desperate for another breath, so I tapped out. Mistress focused and just held me with the weight of her body.  I was there under my Mistress where I have always wanted to be but I let Mistress down again I moved my head and fought her off my face so I could breath. Mistress whipped around sharply and smacked me across my face angrly and demanded to know why I didn’t trust her enough for my next breath. I was so angry with myself for letting Mistress down again.

She explained that she was going to have to teach me to trust and got out the punishment ball gag and placed it into my mouth--the ball is huge it hurts so.  Miss A began to change into her negligee and all I could do is attempt to answer Mistress and watch as Miss A transformed into a beautiful goddess in lace. I was positioned to watch Mistress and Miss A give her submissive part of his first double Domme session. I was kneeling watching Mistress and Miss A torment and use Miss A’s submissive.  Both Mistress and Miss A were so happy and smiling as they used the submissive. Mistress began to rub her sexy feet all over Miss A’s submissive. Miss A was sitting on her submissive’s face, her body and intimate areas smothering him; it was a sight to see both beautiful Dommes teasing Miss A’s submissive.

When Mistress was finished teasing Miss A’s submissive she approached me and took out the ball gag. Miss A placed her submissive on the couch after making him scamper to get something in his shackles and then Mistress ordered me to the floor on my back. Mistress informed me that I was going to take her one of her cocks. She then asked me what size I desired the most to start with. I was so embarrassed answering the question out load in front of Miss A and her submissive. I wanted the biggest one we had. Mistress got her cocks ready putting condoms on them. She began applying lube to my backside and opening me up, in plain site for all to see. I felt the tip of her biggest cock pushing inwards, and quickly she realized it was to big to start with. Wisely, Mistress went down next smaller size and pushed it deep nice and slow till it was completely in. She had a glow on her face as I looked up seeing her beautiful smile and dark eyes burning into me.

Mistress then began working her cock, in and out, making sure I was taking all of her nice and deep. I remember looking over at Miss A and her bound submissive. When I was opened up well enough, she pulled out her big cock out of me and replaced it with the first cock she tried. As she applied pressure I could feel me taking the huge cock easily and this made Mistress so happy. Miss A came and stood over me, watching Mistress fill me. She pulled me to a sitting position and demanded I ride her cock.

Miss A stepped closer and Mistress pushed my head close to Miss A’s intimate parts. Mistress then began pumping me hard and deep and Miss A and Mistress taunted me with smelling Miss A.  Mistress asked Miss A to turn around and pushed me farther in between Miss A’s rear end ordering me to smell her. The sweet smell of her body was so amazing and made me want Miss A more than ever. I began breathing hard and Miss A remarked about me panting for her as Mistress with one hand pushed me closer to Miss A and  with the other hand she continued pushing her cock deep into me this last for a few minutes. Mistress smiled and agreed with Miss A that I was done.

Mistress then put me in bondage sitting in a chair. Miss A was positioning her submissive to continue the rest of his torment.  Mistress then took her panties off and shoved them in my mouth gagging me. I relished in delight at being able to taste my Mistress from her panties.  Mistress then went to assist Miss A with her submissive and returned a few moments later to pull her panties out of my mouth. She pulled them over my head letting me still have a tiny view of Miss A’s strap on session. Mistress then returned to Miss A and held Miss A's slave down as Miss A penetrated her Submissive for the first time wearing her harness. It was amazing watching these two beautiful Dommes hold a submissive down and take him together. I will not give further details, out of request of Mistress, but the scene that followed was empowering and Miss A truly got to shine.

Mistress and Miss A seemed so happy about the night they just had together. Mistress then came over and removed her panties from my head. I had drifted off into my sub thoughts and tiredness by now, and Mistress took this as a sign of disrespect to her.  She wasn’t happy with disconnection and she corrected my attitude with some more slaps to my face. Mistress insists that when I serve her during a session, I must remain smiling, happy and grateful at all times-- no matter how I feel inside. I felt very stupid not being more excited and animated at that moment because Mistress And Miss A just gave me the most amazing experience I’ll never forget. I do appreciate the opportunities both these beautiful Dommes have given me.

After I helped our guests leave and gather their things, we all reflected on the great night. Mistress called Me over to her as we sat on our couch to relax and as she held me, she commended me on my strength and overall great behavior. Sometimes I feel like I make such terrible mistakes and that I am not worthy of our relationship. I have spent a year preparing for this moment, and I wanted to give her perfection. I will do better because I love and care for my Mistress. I am so grateful for this experience and realize how truly lucky I am to be trained by such a powerful and strict Domina.

Sir got to show his skills to another Mistress this past Monday. Here is his journal, I originally posted on my other profile as well. 

The past few days have been really exciting for me because I have really enjoyed making Mistress very happy. It has been great to spoil her with her new camera--she gets a glow on her face and a look of excitement as she takes her wonderful pictures. We also went shopping, and as we shopped Mistress was as happy as I have seen her in a long time. I love following her around carrying her bags. Sometimes when we were around makeup counters or feminine clothing Mistress would look at me with a smirk. She loves to take any advantage to humiliate me or make me feel uncomfortable in public when it comes to feminizing my thoughts. Sometimes she would say things quietly, and sometimes she would just look at me, and I would know exactly what she was thinking. 

The shopping trip with Mistress was a very enjoyable experience.  She also informed me that she was going to meet a Fem Dom for dinner whom I was to call Ma’am. Mistress and Ma’am have been talking for a few days now and I see the excitement on Mistress’s face as she speaks of Ma’am.  She has wanted to share her household and her experiences with another real time FemDom for a while now. Mistress loves to share her life and is very hospitable when you visit her home. Mistress also informed me that Ma’am would be returning to our house after their dinner to meet me. This excited me very much, because it has been a lifetime dream to serve to beautiful Women like Mistress and Ma’am. As Mistress and Ma’am were eating dinner Mistress called my cell phone and requested me to come pick her up so Ma’am would be able to keep a late appointment. Mistress was very excited as we left the restaurant. As we drove home Mistress talked about how she enjoyed her dinner with Ma’am Mistress received a text message later that evening and soon after she informed me that I was gong to serve her and Ma’am this evening. Mistress instructed me to go get ready for Ma’am’s visit. As I went to get ready, I thought hard about how much I loved serving Mistress Kay and about how important this evening was to her.

 As Mistress and I were wating for Ma’am’s arrival ,Mistress instructed me to get her Domme gear. When I returned with the bag of her gear, she instructed me close as she put the collar around my neck. When I felt her close the collar around my neck I could feel my submission grown instantly. Mistress always talks to me before I serve her telling me what is expected. This always has an overwhelming feeling of her power shift over me. I am always submissive to Mistress 24/7, but I feel my submission grow even more with her collar around my neck, kneeling before her.  As Ma’am knocked on the door Mistress was busy in the back part of the house. I went to the door, and invited Ma’am inside Mistress’ home. I offered to take Ma’am’s coat, purse, and asked if she would like something to drink. Ma’am said no to the refreshment, and said she had heard I was very excited to have Mistress show me off for her. I replied “Yes Ma’am” to this. I was very excited, I couldn’t wait to see the excitement on Mistress’s face as I serve her the ways she had trained me for almost a year now. Everything Mistress has spent time training me on seems so natural to me now. I am truly amazed how far Mistress’s training has taken me. When Mistress returned she sat down on the couch by Ma’am. You could tell the two Fem Doms were very excited to talk and share their thoughts. They both looked so beautiful, smiling, and laughing as they chatted about several different things they were interested in. I was on my knees kneeling, watching, and smiling it was so great to see them both so happy. As I set there kneeling and listening to them both share their opinions, learning more about each other. I was so infatuated with Mistress Kay’s beauty, and her dominance over me. My submission has grown so much in the time Mistress has been training me to be her loyal slave. The whole evening felt very natural and relaxing. After some time getting to know one another, the conversation turned to my submission and I was to tell Ma’am how I had become the property of Mistress Kay. Mistress told me to start from the beginning and as I told Mistress and Ma’am my life story into BDSM, they both sat listening learning, and asking questions when needed. Mistress would jump in when she wanted to include something my story was leaving out. I could feel her dominance grow as the evening passed. After I finished telling Mistress and Ma’am my history of my lifestyle experiences, Mistress continued the conversation, informing Ma’am the things we have been wanting to try and experiment. This made me feel very small and quite submissive--listening to Mistress telling Ma’am all my hidden desires and her expectations of me. Mistress would ask me questions such as “Are you a cock whore?” my reply “Yes Mistress.”

Mistress replies, “You are what slave” my reply “I am your cock whore Mistress.” Mistress making sure I was clear and loud with all my responses.

As the night passed Mistress made sure Ma’am knew all my desires, and it was great watching Mistress and Ma’am having such an amazing time.  Ma’am had giving me some minor commands like pet a cat or get her something to drink. I was really excited to serve her also. I wanted to prove my submission to Mistress and all women. Mistress was talking to Ma’am about her interests she wanted to pursue.

Ma’am said she likes smacking faces and missing being able to do that to a submissive male.  Mistress smiles, orders me up and offers my face to Ma’am. She tells Ma’am to go ahead—that I’m all hers. Ma’am smacks me kind of hard on the first smack. Mistress asks her to hit harder and Ma’am gives me a harder smack across my face. Mistress says harder Ma’am smacks again. It was exhilarating being smacked by another Fem Dom as Mistress watched. Ma’am then asked Mistress to give her an example of her smacking me. Mistress gives me her first example how this night was going to be different she landed a very hard blow across my face. After taking both their slaps I felt so small and submissive. Every minute that passed my excitement grew knowing the evening would be very intense.

When Mistress was finished talking about face slapping, she went to talk about spanking, because this is a very exciting subject for Mistress. She loves to paint Her/my ass with marks and bruises—she says it gives her a feeling of ownership. At first I was never excited to take Mistress’s spanking, but now I look forward to them. Spanking excites Mistress so much, I’m very happy to take them for the smiles I get to see on her face. Mistress orders me to remove my jeans. As I pull my jeans off I’m wearing the panties Mistress had me pick out to wear earlier that evening. Ma’am commented how cute they looked on me, and how great they looked on me. I told Ma’am thank you for her sweet comment. Mistress then ordered me to my hands and knees. Mistress continued talking to Ma’am about spanking, and her techniques. Then Mistress demonstrated her spanking instruments starting with her flogger. She gave me a hard rap around blow to my stomach that stung very much. Then as she worked my back and ass I could hear Mistress and Ma’am’s giggles and laughter. Each time I would feel pain, I could feel the excitement grown with in the room.  Mistress then asked Ma’am if she would like to try. Ma’am said excitedly “Yes!” I liked being the one Ma’am was practicing her spanking on. It excites me to know that she would want to help Mistress train me. Ma’am comment how my ass would bounce each time I would take a spanking. I thought it was great to hear Mistress and Ma’am talk about me like an ordinary object as they spanked me. Mistress asked Ma’am what she’d like to see next and she said “What can your slave do well, what are you proud of?” Mistress smiled, looked at Me, and said to Me that we were going to try out her new harness that her sissy Gabby had purchased. Just the thought of Ma’am watching Mistress take me with her strap-on was overwhelming with excitement. I remember having to think about being calm I was so excited! I had to be careful not to lose my composure; I didn’t want to let Mistress down in any way on this amazing fun evening. As I helped Mistress into her new harness, my excitement grew. She would look at me so excited that she was going to take me in front of Ma’am. I could feels Ma’am’s eyes on Me, looking for a clear view of my gentials and this made things more intense. With Ma’am watching and Mistress readies my ass I felt so humiliated, because this was the first time anyone had watched me get taken and used by a strap-on. But as soon as Mistress entered me the thought of humiliation was gone and all I wanted was her to fuck me harder and deeper. Ma’am asked how I like Mistress’s strap-on and I replied happily, ‘I love it Ma’am,” and the two Women went into fits of giggles. Mistress has a lot of pride on how she has trained Her/my ass. I never felt so used and objectified as Mistress used my ass to help Ma’am learn more about strap-on play. Mistress then instructed me to turn around and bend over as I rode her big cock with out taking her cock out. This was very difficult for me with her fat 8-inch cock in my ass. As I was spinning on her cock Ma’am yelled out excitedly “There’s a real sit and spin!”

 Spinning on Mistress’s cock was very hard to do but I did accomplish this task with excitement.  Mistress left no room for rest and continued to fuck my ass while I was on my back very hard and deep. She was really showing Ma’am how much I truly could take. Mistress wanted me to give up and she was going to get her way. I couldn’t take much more and I was exhausted from the great evening I just had. I began to whimper and she noticed, so I began to beg for Mistress to quit, telling her that I couldn’t take anymore. When she heard those words she started fucking me vigorously and leaned forward and bit me firmly till I screamed out and she was satisfied I had taken enough for her. Once Mistress was satisfied she stopped pulled out and ordered me to clean everything up. As I was upstairs cleaning up the gear we had just used, I could hear Mistress and Ma’am talking and ending their evening. After I had cleaned up the gear and returned dressed, Ma’am then instructed me to retrieve her shoes and Mistress instructed I put them on her feet for her. After that, Ma’am requested me to retrieve the rest of her stuff she had brought with her and I happily did so. Mistress then ordered me to Ma’am’s feet and to kiss her shoes. I went to my knees and elbows immediately and began kissing her feet till with gratitude until both Ma’am and Mistress were satisfied, and told me to stop. As Ma’am left, Mistress turned away from the door with a huge smile of pleasure and, if you stripped everything else away from me, that final smile is all I would desire from Mistress Kay.

I just posted this on My other profile, but felt it was appropriate to share here as well. ~Mistress Kay 

I typically do not write first person accounts of sessions, but felt this was such a unique and lovely experience that I had to write about it and share. Enjoy.

A shocked but excited smile crept across his face as I told him to go upstairs and shave his whole body smooth. We were going to have our first full sissifaction session and he needed to quickly prepare. Hearing him in the shower, I smiled as I set out different dresses, outfits, jewelery and all of my best makeup. Stepping out, I don't think I've seen My slave more submissive and eager. I invited him to sit down and proceeded to give him first tutorial of skin care and makeup application. Every time I caught his eye, I could see him transforming inside. He worked hard at it, stripping each bit of his masculinity as I brushed blush over his cheeks, stuffed his bra nice and tight, and held open a very pretty summer dress for him to slip into. As I zipped up the back and had him sit on the edge of our bed, he became Her. I left the room for a moment to grab lube and condoms for My cock and when I came back, there she sat, meek, submissive and beautiful. I came close and embraced her in a kiss, smearing red lipstick over her perfectly sculpted lips. She looked up at me with her big brown eyes and I whispered for her to get on all fours. Ass up, I caressed her thighs and ran my finger under the edge of her lace panties. Her voice soft and small, telling Me how wonderful My touch felt. I took my place behind her and wrapped my hands around her waist. Slowly rocking my hips into hers, we swayed this way with each other, wrapped up in this awesome moment. She gasps in amazement, telling Me she feels like she's being made love to for the first time and I'm not even in her. Kissing her neck and tracing my fingertips down her soft skin, I brushed briefly over the last remaining masculine part of her. Pulling her dress closer to her, I brush over her erection, pretending it doesn't even exist. I've wanted this girl for a long time, my own baby girl who would treat Me with the reverence that I deserved. 

Stepping back down off the bed, I position My feeldoe and pull down her panties slowly. Teasing her hole, I entered her slowly, so I could hear and feel every moment she made. Pulling her down on top of Me as I repositioned Myself, we made love. I watched her bust move with each thrust, her had dip back in ecstasy and watched as her smooth thighs gripped mine. Leaning her back as far as I could, I picked up her thighs and position myself above her. Kissing her neck, smelling her sweet skin, I heard her moan how wonderful she felt as My sissy. As I thrust her deeper and deeper, I watched her writhe in pleasure until I could no longer keep up and fell exasperated into her arms.
As I told her how wonderful it felt to make her mine, I kissed down her body gently, smelling her sweet perfume. I had made not only a girl, but a girl into a Woman that day.

Attention all interested submissives (or anyone up for chat about D/s): We are seeking online companions for Sir to chat with, share and explore. Anyone interested in getting to know us, but perhaps is too far to serve at the moment, this is a great opportunity for you. Send along a picture if you don't have one on your profile, and we'd love to get to know some great, real submissives, sissies, and Dominant.s

It's the beginning of something new! Gabby's first official sissy shift and service started today. I smell a delicious meal being prepared and it's nice to be able to sit and enjoy being served properly. :) Make over happens after dinner, so excited!

~Mistress Kay

Follow up of My meeting with the sissy potential Gabrielle:

Had a lovely dinner with a great new potential sissy submissive. Great conversation and food, plus respect. Now if only it would stay that way...

Well, we had our first potential slave candidate come interview and begin serving yesterday. Boy oh boy was this boy in over his head. Clung to Me for dear life over my knee as Sir and I gave him his spankings for all the missed Yes Sirs and Mistresses. In the end, we have decided to pass, but enjoyed giving a newbie his first FemDom experience.

What's so funny about this whole site and the lifestyle is that no one has shown any real interest in serving Sir and I. I guess you don't get served if you don't ask for money??